What to do when someone doesn't purge

[Xochipilli]

I recently applied kambo to someone but they didn't purge. Not out the mouth at least, they purged out the other end about an hour after the application. I've heard that administering some Rape' helps with that. Do indigenous healers use this substance with kambo to facilitate the purge?

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

My friend that got me into Hop-A, Adrian Rivas (http://spiritofkambo.com/) told me that if people didn't purge I should blow snuff for them to help.  But I don't know if that is an indigenous practice as well or if it is more his adaptation (he's quite the inventive and well rounded healer in his own regard). 

For me if they don't purge after 10 minutes, I remove 2 old dots and add 2 fresh dots.  If they don't purge after that within 5 minutes (in reality thought they should almost purge ASAP after those 2 fresh dots if it's gonna work) then I give them 2 new burn marks and 2 new dots.  Only once have I had to do more than this to make them purge.  In this situation you almost can't take no for an answer and you just have to insist that they need to purge.  They will try to resist but from my experience if they don't purge there not happy in the end and also they try and lecture you that you should have made them purge.  So might as well learn from my experience and make sure they purge fully.

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

He recently updated his webpage and oddly enough it directly addresses your inquiry...

http://spiritofkambo.com/rape/

Sacred tobacco takes another form known generally as rapé.

Rapé is the general name given to medicines that are grinded into fine powder and the blown into both nostrils or snorted. Most rapés are made with tobacco and other ingredients. All tribes that work with kambo uses at least one type of rapé. There are also very powerful and visionary medicines that can be considered rapé like yopo or virola which contain triptamines.

We have been working  exclusively with rapé from the yawanawa tribe that is prepared with lots of prayers, respect and lots of focused attention and intention to be a helpful medicine. This medicine is composed by sacred tobacco and the ashes of a tree known as tsunú, which is consider to be one of the most used trees as remedy for many ailments.

This is not to be taken recreationaly but with purpose.

We often offer and recommend rapé during kambo ceremony in different ocassions, in order to triggger or deepen the purge and exit of all the toxins that the organs are releasing when is not happening by itself, we also offer it when we think  there is more to purge  and in smaller doses when the person is still a bit “out” after the ceremony.

Rapé can help in many ways and the spirit of this grandafather assists us in helping us move the energy that is blocked or when we feel stuck during ceremony with kambo and with ayahuasca.

We personally use it in every ceremony to use the force that the medicine gives helping us to hold the space for our brothers and sisters who are receiving it.

[plantbuddhist]

Giovanni wants people to purge ASAP. On more than one occasion he has suggested that I stick my fingers down my throat to get the purging started even though each time, I knew instinctively that I was going to purge so just shook my head and waited. Its never taken me more than 3-4 mins but for him that's almost too long a time to wait.

Another tip is to have the person continue to drink lukewarm water after the kambo has been applied. Just a full mouthful at a time is usually sufficient to help things along.

[Xochipilli]

Thanks Kampum. I tried using Tsune based Hop-A just after applying kambo, and noticed I had a more intense need to purge than usual. It also made the process more pleasant.

I noticed Giovanni rushes the purge too. Its a bad idea in my opinion, because it takes some time for the toxins to be released into the stomach and intestines, so if you purge before that happens, you'll have trouble getting it all out. I'll ask him about this at some point.

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

On more than one occasion he has suggested that I stick my fingers down my throat to get the purging started even though each time, I knew instinctively that I was going to purge so just shook my head and waited. Its never taken me more than 3-4 mins but for him that's almost too long a time to wait.

Personally I advocate against doing this.  I do not (ever) allow people to do this, it is against indiginous practices (not that they are always right) and it just doesn't feel right for me.  IMO/IME things should move naturally.  If people try or suggest to put a finger down the throat, I will immediately prevent them from doing so.  It is not allowed in ceremonies that I conduct.  That is my way at least (and that used by indigenous peoples) and maybe it can serve as a native reference point.  Or alter native or whichever fits, just purrr spective. 

[plantbuddhist]

It never felt right to me to induce the purge like that, I always want it to happen naturally.

Now I'm curious why Giovanni thinks its so important to purge quickly by any means possible. Seems like adding kambo to an unused burn point or replacing a point or two with fresh kambo or misting the kambo with water would accelerate the onset of purging - it has worked on me.

Good (and important ) topic Xoch - thanks for bringing it up (no pun intended)

[gloriadeo]

None of you mention Palo Santo

Bringing out the Holy Wood (not to be confused with that other Sacred Wood - Tabernanthe Iboga) incense has an almost miraculous effect on the purge.  And how they moan, "take it away, take it away!"

. . its other great gift is that it cleanses any negativity hanging about that is released with the purge.

i generally keep it going while they are waiting, during and a little after the initial purge.  and i sing my little Kambo song all the while.

after this it loses its power a bit and annoys the celebrant with its vile smell!   lol  maybe its job is done. . .

i also have Palo Santo handy during Aya ceremonies.

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

I just thought it was a given.  Had been mentioned in the past.  More like if someone doesn't purge from Kambo+Palo Santo+Tibetan Singing Bell+Icaros+Gemstone tuners+Rattles+Moving all around positions+Inner Burping...and still no purging then what? 

So just add 2 more dots.  A very simple and effective solution IMO. 

[gloriadeo]

ahh. . Basse'
just checking. . .

<3

[Xochipilli]

None of you mention Palo Santo

Bringing out the Holy Wood (not to be confused with that other Sacred Wood - Tabernanthe Iboga) incense has an almost miraculous effect on the purge.  And how they moan, "take it away, take it away!"

. . its other great gift is that it cleanses any negativity hanging about that is released with the purge.

Thanks for sharing that. I burn Palo Santo every time I do a kambo ceremony, but when I'm outdoors the smoke rapidly dissipates and its difficult to keep it burning. I think burning powdered wood (as opposed to just a stick of wood like I usually do) on a charcoal tablet would work better for that purpose. Maybe burning it in a pipe and blowing it at the person (like they do with tobacco in ayahuasca ceremonies) would work, but one should be careful since I read that Palo Santo smoke contains some toxic compounds.

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

I think burning powdered wood (as opposed to just a stick of wood like I usually do) on a charcoal tablet would work better for that purpose.

Yes, that's the ticket.  Chop it, grate it, with a rasp, then put in a coffee grinder and wala some ultra fine specimen that when placed on a charcoal tablet will quickly emit strong medicinal smoke.  Little by little and it burns fast. 

[Natureboy]

Ive never purged from kambo and ive taken up to 15dots, my teacher says purging is not important and some people just dont purge.
I have the same issue with other medicines and have only purged 2/15 times from ayahuasca aswell.

I have recently got the permission to administer kambo and ive done it on myself a few times now.
I feel that its a mental block and when im ready to let go the purge will come.

[peacefull warrior]

Reverse burping practice daily, drink 2l water before application maybe 1l spread out over the 4 hours leading up to the application then chug another 1l just before applying.

Abstain from everything lots of foods temporarily put the vomiting function in the body to sleep especially lime, lemon, apples, anything with pinene alpha or beta.

I have done aya thousands of times and I have only purged 5-10 of those times and many of those were very high dose I have just found personally most of the time I get much more for aya by letting it make its way out the back door instead of cutting the potential short by purging.

I have done kambo probably between 10-20 times and only in 2 of them I did not purge and that was because I used a non traditional application spot.

If you don't purge with kambo then you may be squandering the divine gift that is what makes kambo so unique and special. The magic or a important part of it is the things kambo can remove from the body that cannot be removed in other ways.

After practicing reverse burping after applying a few dots I became able to control my vomiting reflex around 99% or greater, as in I may get pangs of nausea and even experience my guts clench to try to force bowel contents out the mouth but I never actually vomit anymore unless I allow myself to ever since the first time I tried reverse burping before and during kambo.

[Natureboy]

I forgot to mention that i usually purge from down below but no puking from kambo.
I barely get any nausea either just a very strong pressure and swollen face/throat.
I dont feel like forcing anything and i feel good just getting it into my system.