Kambo
Kambo Healers Space => Sharing of the Healers => Topic started by: Xochipilli on July 27, 2013, 09:04:17 AM
-
I recently applied kambo to someone but they didn't purge. Not out the mouth at least, they purged out the other end about an hour after the application. I've heard that administering some Rape' helps with that. Do indigenous healers use this substance with kambo to facilitate the purge?
-
My friend that got me into Hop-A, Adrian Rivas (http://spiritofkambo.com/) told me that if people didn't purge I should blow snuff for them to help. But I don't know if that is an indigenous practice as well or if it is more his adaptation (he's quite the inventive and well rounded healer in his own regard).
For me if they don't purge after 10 minutes, I remove 2 old dots and add 2 fresh dots. If they don't purge after that within 5 minutes (in reality thought they should almost purge ASAP after those 2 fresh dots if it's gonna work) then I give them 2 new burn marks and 2 new dots. Only once have I had to do more than this to make them purge. In this situation you almost can't take no for an answer and you just have to insist that they need to purge. They will try to resist but from my experience if they don't purge there not happy in the end and also they try and lecture you that you should have made them purge. So might as well learn from my experience and make sure they purge fully.
-
He recently updated his webpage and oddly enough it directly addresses your inquiry...
http://spiritofkambo.com/rape/
Sacred tobacco takes another form known generally as rapé.
Rapé is the general name given to medicines that are grinded into fine powder and the blown into both nostrils or snorted. Most rapés are made with tobacco and other ingredients. All tribes that work with kambo uses at least one type of rapé. There are also very powerful and visionary medicines that can be considered rapé like yopo or virola which contain triptamines.
We have been working exclusively with rapé from the yawanawa tribe that is prepared with lots of prayers, respect and lots of focused attention and intention to be a helpful medicine. This medicine is composed by sacred tobacco and the ashes of a tree known as tsunú, which is consider to be one of the most used trees as remedy for many ailments.
This is not to be taken recreationaly but with purpose.
We often offer and recommend rapé during kambo ceremony in different ocassions, in order to triggger or deepen the purge and exit of all the toxins that the organs are releasing when is not happening by itself, we also offer it when we think there is more to purge and in smaller doses when the person is still a bit “out” after the ceremony.
Rapé can help in many ways and the spirit of this grandafather assists us in helping us move the energy that is blocked or when we feel stuck during ceremony with kambo and with ayahuasca.
We personally use it in every ceremony to use the force that the medicine gives helping us to hold the space for our brothers and sisters who are receiving it.
-
Giovanni wants people to purge ASAP. On more than one occasion he has suggested that I stick my fingers down my throat to get the purging started even though each time, I knew instinctively that I was going to purge so just shook my head and waited. Its never taken me more than 3-4 mins but for him that's almost too long a time to wait.
Another tip is to have the person continue to drink lukewarm water after the kambo has been applied. Just a full mouthful at a time is usually sufficient to help things along.
-
Thanks Kampum. I tried using Tsune based Hop-A just after applying kambo, and noticed I had a more intense need to purge than usual. It also made the process more pleasant.
I noticed Giovanni rushes the purge too. Its a bad idea in my opinion, because it takes some time for the toxins to be released into the stomach and intestines, so if you purge before that happens, you'll have trouble getting it all out. I'll ask him about this at some point.
-
On more than one occasion he has suggested that I stick my fingers down my throat to get the purging started even though each time, I knew instinctively that I was going to purge so just shook my head and waited. Its never taken me more than 3-4 mins but for him that's almost too long a time to wait.
Personally I advocate against doing this. I do not (ever) allow people to do this, it is against indiginous practices (not that they are always right) and it just doesn't feel right for me. IMO/IME things should move naturally. If people try or suggest to put a finger down the throat, I will immediately prevent them from doing so. It is not allowed in ceremonies that I conduct. That is my way at least (and that used by indigenous peoples) and maybe it can serve as a native reference point. Or alter native or whichever fits, just purrr spective.
-
It never felt right to me to induce the purge like that, I always want it to happen naturally.
Now I'm curious why Giovanni thinks its so important to purge quickly by any means possible. Seems like adding kambo to an unused burn point or replacing a point or two with fresh kambo or misting the kambo with water would accelerate the onset of purging - it has worked on me.
Good (and important ) topic Xoch - thanks for bringing it up (no pun intended)
-
None of you mention Palo Santo
Bringing out the Holy Wood (not to be confused with that other Sacred Wood - Tabernanthe Iboga) incense has an almost miraculous effect on the purge. And how they moan, "take it away, take it away!"
. . its other great gift is that it cleanses any negativity hanging about that is released with the purge.
i generally keep it going while they are waiting, during and a little after the initial purge. and i sing my little Kambo song all the while.
after this it loses its power a bit and annoys the celebrant with its vile smell! lol maybe its job is done. . .
i also have Palo Santo handy during Aya ceremonies.
-
I just thought it was a given. Had been mentioned in the past. More like if someone doesn't purge from Kambo+Palo Santo+Tibetan Singing Bell+Icaros+Gemstone tuners+Rattles+Moving all around positions+Inner Burping...and still no purging then what?
So just add 2 more dots. A very simple and effective solution IMO.
-
ahh. . Basse'
just checking. . .
<3
-
None of you mention Palo Santo
Bringing out the Holy Wood (not to be confused with that other Sacred Wood - Tabernanthe Iboga) incense has an almost miraculous effect on the purge. And how they moan, "take it away, take it away!"
. . its other great gift is that it cleanses any negativity hanging about that is released with the purge.
Thanks for sharing that. I burn Palo Santo every time I do a kambo ceremony, but when I'm outdoors the smoke rapidly dissipates and its difficult to keep it burning. I think burning powdered wood (as opposed to just a stick of wood like I usually do) on a charcoal tablet would work better for that purpose. Maybe burning it in a pipe and blowing it at the person (like they do with tobacco in ayahuasca ceremonies) would work, but one should be careful since I read that Palo Santo smoke contains some toxic compounds.
-
I think burning powdered wood (as opposed to just a stick of wood like I usually do) on a charcoal tablet would work better for that purpose.
Yes, that's the ticket. Chop it, grate it, with a rasp, then put in a coffee grinder and wala some ultra fine specimen that when placed on a charcoal tablet will quickly emit strong medicinal smoke. Little by little and it burns fast.
-
Ive never purged from kambo and ive taken up to 15dots, my teacher says purging is not important and some people just dont purge.
I have the same issue with other medicines and have only purged 2/15 times from ayahuasca aswell.
I have recently got the permission to administer kambo and ive done it on myself a few times now.
I feel that its a mental block and when im ready to let go the purge will come.
-
Reverse burping practice daily, drink 2l water before application maybe 1l spread out over the 4 hours leading up to the application then chug another 1l just before applying.
Abstain from everything lots of foods temporarily put the vomiting function in the body to sleep especially lime, lemon, apples, anything with pinene alpha or beta.
I have done aya thousands of times and I have only purged 5-10 of those times and many of those were very high dose I have just found personally most of the time I get much more for aya by letting it make its way out the back door instead of cutting the potential short by purging.
I have done kambo probably between 10-20 times and only in 2 of them I did not purge and that was because I used a non traditional application spot.
If you don't purge with kambo then you may be squandering the divine gift that is what makes kambo so unique and special. The magic or a important part of it is the things kambo can remove from the body that cannot be removed in other ways.
After practicing reverse burping after applying a few dots I became able to control my vomiting reflex around 99% or greater, as in I may get pangs of nausea and even experience my guts clench to try to force bowel contents out the mouth but I never actually vomit anymore unless I allow myself to ever since the first time I tried reverse burping before and during kambo.
-
I forgot to mention that i usually purge from down below but no puking from kambo.
I barely get any nausea either just a very strong pressure and swollen face/throat.
I dont feel like forcing anything and i feel good just getting it into my system.
-
I understand you not wanting to force anything but you are probably massively squandering a incomprehensibly valuable gift by not seeking to purge.
Saying I feel good just getting it into my system is really not something anyone who respects this sacred medicine should probably be saying.
I am not telling you what to do that is up to you, but at this forum the people here do not use this medicine to feel good, most of the people here use this medicine as a divine catalyst for the healing of the self and the whole.
Feeling good does not mean you are more healthy, but becoming more healthy almost always makes you feel good more.
I would say that using kambo without purging is only making use of less than 1% of the medicine meaning not purging causes you to squander 90-99% of the potential this miracle medicine is capable of.
In fact I would go as far as to say if you don't purge then you have not done kambo.
-
I will do a sesion tomorow with my mentor, i will ask for a higher dose and see if i feel closer to puking.
Im def not arguing the benefits of purging from kambo or any of the plant medicines.
Actually i purged for the second time ever from ayahuasca just last week.
Hopefully that opened up any blockages and will enable me to more easily purge from other medicines aswell.
If i felt any nausea i would def try to push it out but i dont feel it like that.
But kambo seems to work on mostly emotional and mental effecrs on me, i get heavy anxiety and fear coupled with a heavy body load and lethargy during the trip.
The last few times ive also gotten some visual effects and euphoria once the main effects calmed down.
And i dont think you should tell me what i respect and what not.
Im not doing this for fun and i def take my practise seriously.
I plan to have a long relationship with the frog and i trust it will purge me when the time is right.
-
Kambo without purging happened to me in the beginning a few times. Most of these were due to not enough dots, or not rubbing the skin layer away well enough. Dots should appear as pinkish white spots after burning and rubbing, which means that the layer of skin has been rubbed away. This makes a lot of difference.
Another thing is drinking enough water. When you get close to gulping down 2 liters, the sensation of wanting to throw it all up becomes very acute. If you don't get this, maybe drink some more water?
Besides that it still can happen that a purge stays absent. One of the things I learned was that once you get accustomed to kambo and have purged on it a few times, you get a sort of association between applying the kambo and vomiting shortly after. Nowadays vomiting follows naturally after applying the dots.
It brings great relief once you start purging. Actually it's the only desire on my mind when the kambo kicks in, to throw it all up :P. I also keep some water during the purge, when vomiting becomes strained, the sensation you're stomach is running empty, I quickly empty another cup of water to keep on purging...
Hope this may be of some help...
-
Did another sesion yesterday and still no purge.
I got 13dots with refill in 5 of them since the kambo was absorbed very fast in a few of them.
My friend who was with me also got 13 and he purged like he always does.
I can tell that i def do a the precautions lile fast 6hours before and drink loads of water the whole day ahead.
Ive also dobe mini doses of 5-7dots on myself 3times in the last week so ive gotten about 40dots in less then one week.
I do get the common effects like puffy face, heavy pulse and tingling like most but still no nausea or so.
My plan in to do a ayahuasca ceremony soon and im thinking about making a few dots while under the infuence so maybe the medicines together might open me up for a epic purge.
-
It might be worth the time to read kampums thread about mama kambo mama or papa kambo papa this refers to his experiences with combining aya before and after kambo in micro dose as well as iboga before and afterword.
I have tried both and they both make me purge much harder, deeper, and for longer than just kambo on its own.
Aside from the obvious spiritual synergy these 3 have together there is a complex series of chemical synergies between aya and iboga with kambo and kampum has done a considerable amount of the testing of the waters to the point that from experience of the spiritual and chemical synergies I think the methods he has posted may be optimal methods of getting the absolute most benefit from the least medicine used.
Another method kampum talks about that might help is 3 sessions in 3 days one after another, another method is 3 sessions within 1 day and another method would be 3 sessions within 3 hours this last 3 sessions in 3 hours method would be the most likely to induce a purge I think. Each time I have tried these methods kampum has shared I have noticed that they seem to each have specific things they help so trying all the methods a few times each with lots of time in between is best to get the whole picture.
-
Natureboy - have you tried increasing (1.5x or 2x) the size of those burns/points? Maybe you just need more Kambo. The fact that both you and your friend took 13 dots tells me that these are not large points. 13 of mine would put me through the wringer and my dots are not huge by any means - approx 3mm and I do 8 or 9. The experience is quite consistent. Water purge 3 or so minutes in and deep bile purge 8 or 10 minutes in and sometimes a small one at 15 minutes.
I have applied 5 of my dots to a couple of people and one took a dot off and still purged (both ends) and the other went through agony (purging very deep), much more so than myself.
Just sharing my experience hoping it may help.
-
The dots are about 3-5mm so they are def not smaller than usual, ive also tried 2different sources of kambo so i dont think its the medicine.
Both me and my friend are long time martial artists and are in very good shape, we are used to tough experiences and that is why the shaman gives us bigger doses.
She says that 9dots are usually enough for most but you cant really compare a average western person who usually is very weak and fragile to someone who trains hard almost every day.
I read a raport here somewhere about a mma fighter who also was less sensitive than most.
I did however notice that when i administered on myself that 5dots gave me decent effects, i will keep experementing untill i find a good routine.
And peaceful warrior, i tried finding the thread you mentioned but failed, could you please link it?
-
Someone just said to me yesterday: if one wants to puke has only to ingest tobacco.
How to do this safely, would be another topic.
-
Just doing the Rape' when one hasn't purged is what the Yawanawa do from what I've been told. I was treated by someone that trained with them and this is how he does it but very seldom does the person have it in them to take the snuff while under the Kambo. He lets them get by without purging.
I have this rule in my personal practice of mandatory purging, anyone I treat I make them agree that they will allow me to do what is necessary to insure that they will purge. I once made a Daimista purge for 2 hours from one snuff blow and this same Fardado had never purged in 10 years in the Daime.
The main thing is the singing in order to dig it out, but replacing dots is a quick and effective method. I also mandate enemas afterwords to insure that all is out. To me this really brings the experience full circle and to a greater level of 'completion'.
It's so controversial though, if you don't purge or don't want to purge that's your thing. I've got a lot to purge yet until I can get though my eons of self created cobwebs.
-
Reading through this thread on your purging issues natureboy, what are your experience regarding vomiting overall? Did you have experience in the past were you threw up and if so, how did this go?
So one thing to look into is how do you stand in relation to throwing up and purging in general? How do you feel about it, more importantly what does your body tell you?
And besides all the given advice on purging methods, one that worked for me on those occassion I didn't purge was to drink more water and do another round with at least as many dots or even more.
But take it easy, maybe wait a few months or so before attempting again... If you do lot's of sessions you get accustomed to large doses and well that will stand in the way of purging...
-
Thank you all for your responses.
I did another trial today and applied 7 big holes, this time i used alot in every hole, like 3x the amount my teacher gives me.
And now i get what you are talking about, this was by far my strongest experince.
No purge but it was really close this time, i got very nauseas and my entire body was tingling intensly.
If it had been just a little more intense then i would have panicked, but it was just perfect.
-
If it had been just a little more intense then i would have panicked
I panic every time usually directly after I'm finished applying the dots, i get this strong feeling that I've finally done it this time and I'm going to die. But then shortly after I'm so freaking hit up that I can't panic due to getting my ass handed to me. Only about 10 of the times I've done Kambo did I not think I was going to die and those were all rather disappointing. The worst is when your purging black bile over and over again without any reference point to this happening and then wondering if it's ever going to stop. That seems to produce really lasting results.
Is your teacher in the States? This ideology of non purging runs counter to the leading experts in the field but is more in line with the indigenous that use it. They don't require that you purge. It's a common theme where 4 of the leading practitioners suddenly had co-revelations that the toxin was being reabsorbed into the system in an unhealthy manner and that there were even experiential cases with negative results when not purging.
-
My teacher has studied in the states but is from northern europe.
The tribe who initiated her is called Huni kuni.
The weird thing yesterday was that the main effects lasted for nearly an hour and i could feel it quite strong 3hours after.
Could this be since i got a big amount and did not purge?
Also a few of the holes was a bit deeper than usual.
About my puking preferences, i can say that i dont enjoy pukong or being nauseaus much at all.
Mostly cause i rarely am i think.
Like i said ive had san pedro and ayahuasca many times and only purged a very few times.
-
i tried finding the thread you mentioned but failed, could you please link it?
Here you go…
http://kambo.me/smf/index.php?topic=26.msg80#msg80