Kambo pre Iboga question...

[jimidcricket]

 I have tried to seek an answer to this question in here but found many different perspectives and attitudes to choose from..
 
I have about 700ml of quality TA for a small booster, a few grams of wood for the days or weeks after and a fresh kambo stick..

after about three or four days of fasting, I want to combine the two medicines together..

My question is this.... do they work well together if I do them in the same day?... (Kambo in the AM and ibo in the PM)
or would it be best space them out ? or  doing the TA right after the Kambo?

I am curious what other peoples experience has been, and if there is any significant benefit or detriment to same day administration or if it seem to be more of a matter of personal preference...
thank you for any response
Cricket

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

My question is this.... do they work well together if I do them in the same day?... (Kambo in the AM and ibo in the PM)
or would it be best space them out ? or  doing the TA right after the Kambo?

TA in ml or do you mean mg?  confused me.  Yes they work well together the same day.  I like the Papa Kambo Papa, doing about 500mg with lecithin, enzymes and bioperine first thing when I wake up.  Doing enemas.  Then about 3-7 hours after the Iboga intake I have the Kambo.  Then afterwords I have only the TA (about 500mg of homemade TA or homemade PTA (which by PTA is what you have if you got it from Iboga World I just make it purified on my own same basic alkaloid content).  I'm super light weight and sensitive to both medicines.  To be honest it makes me feel like a fierce spiritual warrior.  Wouldn't want to wrestle me that's for sure when I have these sacraments together.  Wild Bwiti.

Honestly if Plant Buddhist doesn't chime in here I would suggest PM'ing him on this, he has gone down the Rabbit's hole with this combo.  In general I like the relationship with Kambo and Aya a bit more as it get's me in touch with the Huni Kuin Kambo Paje' spirit which I think is dormant in all of us Kamboists but comes out with just the right synergistic buhm. 

[jimidcricket]

 thanks Kamboga...
yes I mean mg.. two caps with about 350 TA in each.. ha ..
 and no its not Iboga world ta... its what my provider supplied me with post session..

and forgive me, I am a little confused.. (not hard to accomplish that feat with me ha)
Papa Kambo Papa... (iboga kambo iboga?) I know i have heard that between the two jungle medicines (aya and Iboga) that people tend to call ibo male and aya female.. is this what you are refering to
and then...
when you say you do about 500mg  iboga intake AND THEN about 3-7 hours later do Kambo?
or do you simply mean wood first and then later the TA after Kambo?? How is your ataxia at this point?.  I can't imagine this would be at all easy. especially when the ibogaine is of quality extraction.

(I have this funny  image of me all wobbly hands  and head trying to get 7 burns and 7 globs placed )
mainly because I would imagine that anything below 300 in TA is walk around dose but beyond that is better as lay down dose?


and why would you want to purge any of the iboga from your system?

or did i just read you wrong?


I get a little confused reading posts in here and another forum about iboga, because I am not sure always of the wieghts and potency of the various mentions to the TA and the HCL.. (just to be clear, i am clear on the diference between the two extractions)
my understanding and experience of chemistry is limited but still.. when I read some peoples posts about the amounts they are ingesting seem unfathomably high ..(at least without the experience of a skilled provider/sitter) and or even questionably low...
anyway..
I say that only as request for understanding that i may not be clearly reading what people are putting out there in the way of advice and information.

the point being tho is that Kambo and Ibo in the same 12 hour period can compliment each other.. awesome...
I will message plantbuddhist and inquire his rabbit hole path if i dont hear from his before hand

and will also report back on the recipe and results of my own concoction.

cricket

[plantbuddhist]

Hi jimid

What is your tolerance level for iboga? As K stated, he is very sensitive to both medicines so I'm curious to know how much kambo you've done and how much iboga you've done and how you tolerated it.

I am nowhere near as sensitive to either medicine. Prior to doing Papa Kambo Papa, I microdosed 1g RB every night for a couple of weeks.

When I started the PKP, I would fast (just apple juice, tea or water), take 1gm of RB in the morning about 4 hrs before doing 2 kambo sessions then I would take anther gram of RB in the evening maybe 5 hrs after the last kambo. I did this for 2 days in a row.

The only difference I noticed once I started the PKP was that i started remembering my dreams which I don't normally do. Given the nature of the dreams that I had, I put them down to the work of Iboga.

The next day, I took a break from the kambo but still took 1 gm of RB morning and evening.

Given the amount of TA you have, I won't go into the details of taking a lot of RB after an intense kambo session but it is not for the faint of heart!

I have done this once before a few months ago. That time I actually had amazing results. You can read about it here:

http://kambo.me/smf/index.php?topic=160.0

I'm not sure how the 14g of RB I took compares to the amount of TA you have but it certainly was an amazing and blissful time for me. I think part of it is just surrendering to what the medicines have in store for you - its not always what you expect.

When I tried this combo back in November, the effects of the 14g of RB really came through - particularly for the 2 days after then on a more subtle level for a couple of weeks after that. This time, iboga worked on some painful house cleaning for me and is still doing something in the background judging by my dreams but it is the kambo that is shining through magnificently - an energy that I know others have experienced but its a first for me.

Let me know if you have any other questions

[jimidcricket]

wow.. that really helped me.. especially the last paragraph here and then  for your informative kambo post..
I would not say that my tolerance for Ibogaine or kambo is high, ( i booster nicely with 300 - 500 mg hcl.. if I eat it at 9pm i am asleep by 3am.) and my last TA booster was 700 like the one i have now.. but then again I weigh between 20 and 30 lbs more than i did when i was  last boostering (my last flood was 2 years ago)
i will eat 200 mg TA as a walk around dose with nothing other than feeling like i am walking in sacred space...

as for the Kambo.. I have never topped 7 dots and have yet to dare doing it twice in a 24 hour period.. kambo hits me hard?? I am guessing? I enjoy it but I cannot imagine that after my face and throat swells up the way they do.. if i did any more my lips would ballon up and my voice would probably sound sandpaper for a week.. ha

I do not eat rootbark in any measured system.. Ill eat a couple pinches a day if I am in a good space and wanting to learn something or I am studying ... I have never eaten more than a couple grams so I would have no context other than conceptual..
I figured if I was ever going to eat that much root bark I would be in Gabon and getting a headwash first...

so, the next few days I have free to have a couple days to really spend some time with the kambo and the root actually happens to be during the new moon... I can have a few days of fasting under my belt and I few days to combine Kambo sessions.. (maybe work my way up to 9??)
I have gained a lot of weight since the last time i did Ibo and I am excited to see how the Kambo works in tandem..

I am still looking around here for acupuncture points and weighing my intentions together..
thanks for your input and ill be checking back in here again..
cricket

[plantbuddhist]

if you already know that 200mg TA is a good walk around dose then I would stick with that for the pre kambo morning dose. Like you said, you don't want to have wobbly hands trying to make burns (although it might be funny for someone else to watch you doing that...!).

Listen to your body - you'll know how much kambo to do. Sometimes just one extra burn makes a huge difference. Maybe do 8 burns, put kambo on 7 as usual purge, drink more water and add kambo to the 8th burn.

Sounds like you're approaching both medicines with the right attitude and that's half the battle really.

Take care and much healing to you

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

I'm sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.

Just 500mg-1gr of Root Bark before hand for me.  And then afterwords I have the TA or PTA.

The RB ahead of the Kambo seems to help send the gut pain to my third eye.  Also helps with the singing which overall helps me get through it.  I just got sick for the first time in 2 years and am gonna have to get the Kambo smack down as a punishment soon. 

[plantbuddhist]

I just got sick for the first time in 2 years

Well that ain't too shabby K... I have not had a day's sickness in the 5 months since I first did kambo - it was strange to go through winter seeing everyone around me getting the flu, bad colds, getting reinfected etc etc and it was like I had this bullettproof vest on.

[jimidcricket]

... ahhhh... alright i think i get it... basically its ..

just enough root bark to lower your resistance, like when low dosing a few days to prep for and familiarize a first time r for a flood..
only now its to open yourself up for the Kambo...

wait long enough to be able to purge without fear of losing any of the iboga benefit...
which btw.. i know its not a large amount by any means.. doesn't wood take forevvveeerrrrr to be absorbed???

now that you have opened yourself up more for the Kambo... do like a moderate Kambo session (for me that would be a 5point maybe?)

rehydrate for the rest of the day and in the evening....
then the  700 mg TA booster
(which is reportedly from pretty strong batch)

I only have a few grams of wood .. and I was planning on doing the wood incrementally about a month after the booster .. just because I wanted to spread it out and allow it to work slow..

I was planning on doing the Kambo 3x between one moon cycle and using the wood then.. and finish the wood on the third session...

thanks you two.. this helps immensely ...
cricket

[plantbuddhist]

just enough root bark to lower your resistance, like when low dosing a few days to prep for and familiarize a first time r for a flood..
only now its to open yourself up for the Kambo...

my sense is that its not about lowering your resistance to the kambo but its getting the iboga and kambo to "talk" to one another - the kambo responds to that small amount of iboga in your system and then the final iboga responds to the kambo in your system so its like a layering effect :
iboga
kambo
iboga

it seems to set up a sort of feedback system. K might have some thoughts on this.

wait long enough to be able to purge without fear of losing any of the iboga benefit...
which btw.. i know its not a large amount by any means.. doesn't wood take forevvveeerrrrr to be absorbed???

that's why its better to put it in a blender and turn it into star dust - the fine powder is absorbed much easier and if you add some lecithin (just a little in a cap with the powder) that will be enough "food" to alert your stomach to start the digestion process

now that you have opened yourself up more for the Kambo... do like a moderate Kambo session (for me that would be a 5point maybe?)

rehydrate for the rest of the day and in the evening....
then the  700 mg TA booster
(which is reportedly from pretty strong batch)

yup!

[jimidcricket]

ok... that makes sense...
what would your follow up plan be for the next few days or weeks?

(your tools remaining are .. plenty of Kambo, and only about 2 grams wood)

what would you consider a thoughtful follow thru?

next day kambo?

and, I have have never thought able to kambo more than once a day...
what is the difference between doing 3points 3x a day and doing a single session of like 7x

i can understand how it would really travel deeply thru the body system but...
isn't there a matter of tolerance?

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

I guess it depends on how aggresively you wish to attack...

3x3 Kambo followed with 1gr of finely ground wood.  Then next morning 500mg of wood and evening 500mg of wood.

Or 7 days straight of Kambo and at the end 2gr of finely ground wood. 

Either way should produce dramatic results but the 3x3 does something magical where the Kambo synergizes with itself.  Kambo seems to want to bond with medicines and take them to great heights, and Kambo compounding Kambo is in itself quite extraordinary in this ability.  It is very ultra difficult to get through.  Has nothing to do with toughness or machismo or anything of that order more akin to sheer desperation.  For me my migraines were getting so bad and frequent that I was willing to do anything.  Once I had the intuition that Kambo would solve the issue at hand I went ahead with the necessary measures.  The first treatment required general tentitiveness and nervousness so frequent in Kambo ordeals, but after that the auto pilot took over and I simply was the passenger.  Could I do it again?  Likely not unless I had a severe issue of illness or issue of desperate measures and/or I had a fellow healer to help me get through it.  I recommend it but at the same time you can understand that I can't recommend it because of how freaking hard it is to get through those most difficult 3 hours of life. 

isn't there a matter of tolerance?

Somehow at least for me the 3x3 didn't seem to have tolerance but instead stacked on itself.  But doing it for consecutive days has always built up tolerance for me.  So usually if I do it consecutive days the next day I will need at least 1 more dot and at times 2 more dots to achieve full on purging. 

If you do the 3x3 based on your tolerance it would likely look like this...
5dots, 5 dots, 7 dots.  The final increase up to 7 is in effect to take it far beyond rather than to be on a similar level as those previous.  It will be extremely harsh and if your like me will turn very visionary in it's effects for at least 4 hours following.  Make sure you don't have to work for 2-3 days following as your body will be spent.  Consider the physical drain to be on the level of an Iboga flood in terms of recovery time. 

If you do consecutive days it would look more incremental. For example...
Day 1: 5 dots
Day 2: 6 dots
Day 3: 7 dots
Until your reach the standard high point level.  For instance I doubt I will ever need or could withstand more than 13 dots as I am similar to you in being extremely sensitive to Kambo.

My ultimate recommendation:
Take no Iboga until Kambo 'cures' you of your cluster headaches.  For me before Kambo 'cured' me of my migraines, Iboga ALWAYS caused migraines because of the head pressure intensity that it causes. 

[jimidcricket]

interesting thanks...
before i get to my main question, i want to ask you about your migraines...

are they migraines?.. or are they cluster headaches?

why do i ask?... check this out..

I always thought they were the same thing until a doctor told me flat out, my symptoms are not of migraine behavior but cluster headaches...  I am not going to argue which one is more painful or traumatic, but i will say this...
during one of my months of twice a day attacks
I had an attack  while under 300mg HCL ... I didnt feel the pain.. but I felt it happening, I then immediately, i went about a year without any further attack...
I have also learned that some people have taken doses of psilocybin to relieve themselves of chronic migraines...
I shy away from mushrooms because they exasperate my headaches... they get more frequent and worse...

I find it interesting that iboga can instigate your migraines, while release me from mine..

on a side note about the head aches...
as I said in another post about this, i was having my cluster headaches two to three times daily before I was able to do a small Kambo administration.. only 3x1...
I posted that my headaches disappeared for about two days... they had since returned for a number of days after, and with a higher volume of pain and with a MUCH shorter time between aura (shadow) and attack.. meaning I had less time between sensing i had an approaching attack and its arrival..
however... tho much more violent and now three to four times a day, they were much shorter and eventually dissipated.

as of now... I only have long periods of the pre-shadows... and no attack..
i really feel as tho the small Kambo intake shifted things around to where I am at now...


OK... and now my actual inquiry part two.....

Other than the headaches, physically, I have no real  need to create a full on saturation of Kambo..
(I feel strongly that a one time session of 7 points would clear out the remaining lingering presence of head discomfort)

however... and maybe this should be a whole seperate thread...
this leads into probably a dual longterm ibo effects and kambo.

After I have had one serious deep flood of HCL and have since injested a significant amount of HCL and TA in the form of light floods and frequent boosters...
(my flooding was after a long saturation period to address years of methamphetamine use)
the following sessions and focus for the ibogaine was to address the deep toxic conflict of other serious trauma....
( i am a serious advocate for finding protocol not just for opiate detox, but for rape trauma, and for PTSD from war)

(ill try to get to the point)

Iboga has helped more than i ever thought... sometimes tho MORE than I wanted..
I feel a frequent contest now in living post iboga...
a person gets to a point where there is enough success in changing your life around, but always teatering on this edge of familiar attacks and approach to living life, and making new decisions..

simply... after a few decades of adjusting and shaping yourself around familiar quirks and saftey protocol ... its hard to realize that not only are we healthier people on a deeper level.. to maintain this growth feels like we are different people..

for a while, it was hard to make art because I had always thrived on being crazy and exploring the left handed in my theater and my art...

when it gets hard to feel I can be true to myself, thats when the Kambo comes..
well, THATS my dialogue with kambo, thats my attraction to it....

there is always this personal vision (not iboga induced)
like some past life imagination

being in the jungle and madly running barefoot and being the a member of the village periphery.. the mad men who spend too much time poking themselves with poison thorns and talking to shadows... but the village people tolerate the kooky ones for whatever reason... they are toxic and yet medicine for the tribe as a whole...
iboga talked me out of the shadows where I wasn't doing anyone any good, only filling my flesh with rhetoric on poison...
but after coming out of the shadows, the place where we have learned to navigate for our whole lives BECAUSE THATS WHAT WE WERE GOOD AT!!!...
its been hard to position myself back into a sense of service within myself and the world....
sorta like looking around my jungle hut and looking at all my weird tools of lefthanded trade and shrugging my shoulders say.. ok... now what
thats where Kambo comes in and next thing i know im hunting with the other outcast flankers in the hunt..  skill sharing and being of service , only now the tools i have used are functioning in other forces of will...
now not only does fire burn and cast violent illumination... it heats water for tea, seals a wound..

well... if i didnt take this WAY OUT into left field... then i dont know..

UH... what was i saying...
Kambo... panema... moving the black cloud into a sweet monsoon rain....

healing for the hunt, being true to the self.
a good human..
thats why i use Kambo..

whew.. ha
if you read all that... i am impressed..
anyway..
thanks for all the info you have responded with
peace

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

I enjoy your writing and find it entertaining enough to read through, both here and on eboka.info.  Didn't know if you consider yourself a healer but I put your status as that, I felt you deserved something of the sort.

I had been diagnosed with migraines as a young child.  My symptoms seemed to be different than yours so not sure if what I said is applicable or not.

Before Kambo stopped the migraines dead in their tracks (it's been 2 years since I had one) Iboga always caused migraines, yes.  Even very small amounts, which made it hard to take Iboga even though I still did.  My first flood I swear I had an ongoing continuous migraine for a week straight.  The flood healed me at a deep PTSD level to which you spoke of, not of war but for a different circumstance.  I too do Kambo for similar reasons although I must say it has taken on a religious like propensity or ceremonious regularity. 

[Kambogahuasca Panacea]

I missed all the clarifying that Plantbuddhist provided above, thanks brother.  My apologies for overlooking.