Kratom

[Elijah Phoenix]

I hope I don't offend anyone by creating this thread, there are indeed many other places this plant could be discussed.  I am starting this because now that I have begun working with Kambo, my relationship with Kratom will undoubtedly change.  First off, let me explain that I have restless leg syndrome and have had to deal with the symptoms since I was a teenager, and have suffered countless nights without sleep.  Many years ago I went to a doctor whom prescribed something I will not mention since it does not occur naturally.  I was on this for roughly 8 years and used various other pharmaceuticals as well.  I was not happy being so dependent on an rx, and finally last summer I was able to wean myself off of the med.  I went on a spirit walk, which was a turning point, gave up smoking cigarettes as well. Cessation of smoking was not as difficult as getting off the pharmaceutical.  Getting to the point, I transitioned into using kratom at the end of the transition off the rx to help with withdrawls and underlying symptoms.

I have used these tree leaves on a daily basis now for almost a year.  My relationship with it is moderately healthy.  I can forsee myself removing this from my daily routine in the future; it is just another habit, although not as unhealthy as a synthetic substance.  I've found some spirituality in working with these trees, and they have been kind to me. 

Working with kambo, I believe it to be appropriate to fast from food as well as kratom.  I did not seem to 'need' to dose for sometime after my kambo app.  I could see some potential for kambo disrupting my usage of these tree leaves and perhaps helping in removing the daily usage altogether. 

Does anyone have any thoughts or feelings about the dynamics of kambo and kratom.  I am not opposed to kratom use, but daily use is not necessarily appropriate; I feel non-daily use can be very spiritual and I would recommend it as part of a preperation for ceremonial work.

I have no experience with eboka, I am curious about how long I would need to abstain from kratom before using that sacrament; wrong place to ask I know, but I'm kind of speaking my mind and feelings here, I know there's some wise souls here.  Please feel free to share what you think and feel about this.

Lastly, would anyone recommend a specific way to work with both sacraments?  I would Not be inclined to work with both at the same time, I would think it to be a contradiction of sorts.  There's so many active peptides, the body is purging, and these trees don't really have the same dynamics.  Seems a bit of an opposition.  However, maybe there's an appropriate incorporation somewhere maybe days after the experience?  I'm not seeking to incorporate, but am open to suggestions since I currently use it daily.

Thanks for letting me speak my mind. 

[n3ur0h@ck]

Kratom and kambo don't go well together. My experience is that when you are using kratom, stay away from kambo and vice versa. Especially refrain from combining them on the day of application with kambo. Preferably also the day before and after. I don't know why, but probably due to the paradoxical effect of kratom (find more about this in Ratsch Encyclopia of Psychoactive Plants). Kambo has opiate like compounds as well so this may account as well.

On the other hand this could be due to opposing spirits as well. Kratom is therapeutic I am certain of that, but where Kambo is like a head-on collision with blockages, Kratom is like a backdoor treatment. Maybe interesting, but with kratom I seriouly kicked my ganja addiction and then kicked a possible kratom addiction as well. So I respect the kratom teacher, but on the other hand I am of the kind people that need a lot kratom for a little effect so getting addicted was not a big possibility.

In the end kratom is toxic and I disagree with Ratsch mentioning little toxicity. For me kratom is a no go and that's because my body can't handle it very well. This I have learned by experience. Some people have this, mostly caucasians and it's a known genetic factor, that having less CYP2D6 enzymes which metabolize kratom's alkaloids. Ibogain's activity as anti addiction is also through this enzyme. Which is funny, because on the one hand getting addicted from kratom and is very difficult but getting anti addiction effect from iboga are also difficult to obtain.

[Maxxreflexsun]

I really think we need a lot more discussion on this topic.  I feel my intuition and just basic understanding of the medicines suggest they should not be used together,or within a close time, but I find it hard to find any information on the subject. With the growing interest and use of both medicines I think we should do whatever we can to learn and inform.

[―λlτεrηĭτγ⇀]

There's no reason to believe it would be a good combination in the first place.
Kratom sedates the nervous system with opiate effects and kambo is a purgative cleanser that gets blood / circulation going.

[Maxxreflexsun]

I think it should be obvious that you should not combine the medicines but it is good to reiterate for others.  More importantly I want to know if there is any danger of using Kratom in between Kambo.  I think it could be counter productive except I also think that Kratom could be a useful plant ally and I know some people with chronic pain and other problems  just really could use Kratom in their lives to get through a hard day.  I know Kambo can help in the long run but it's the details of frequency and time between that would be great to share and learn about for future knowledge.