Kambo
Kambo To Prepare For An Iboga Full On Initiation (aka a Flood) => Kambo Preparation for the Pinnacle Spiritual Experience (Iboga flood) => Topic started by: Kambogahuasca Panacea on December 05, 2012, 09:49:25 PM
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So far this has not been proven. I plan on putting it to practice after my next Iboga flood this Saturday. Within the next 2 months at least 2 of us will try and determine the validity. That being said it looks pretty golden. Breaking it down to a one stop shop again...
i am saying combining for iboga to get Noribogaine to cycle:
piperidine (black pepper tea or L-lysine)
ALDH inhibitors (grocery store natural almond and star anise extracts) (or just tea made from whole star anises)
and then an CYP2D6 INDUCER like valerian, it could take anywhere from 30 minutes to over an hour after taking valerian for its induction to kick in.
so the timing would be for noribogaine:
pepper tea without solids (or l-lysine) and valerian at the same time
45 minutes later
20-40 drops each of natural star anise extract and almond extract from grocery store, sewing needle pokes small enough holes for drops in the foil seal, if put in gel caps with olive oil and taken followed right after by half peanut butter sandwich it is infinitely more enjoyable. or if your lazy you could eat 20 drops of each and apply 10+ drops to the skin above the liver and or along the meridians connected with the stomach and intestines and such, taking a caffeine tablet with these extracts at the same time will boost the ALDH inhibition very strongly.
15 minutes later
take ibogaine (possibly best if taken in gel caps, mixed with olive oil might help as well, and with very small bite of peanut butter sandwich)
if one cannot get valerian, they could take any of the short lasting INHIBITORS listed, the day before taking piperidine and ALDH inhibitors, and the next day after taking the short lasting inhibitors they will have long worn off with a high probability of the body slightly inducing the enzyme upon recovery from the inhibitor, you could do this by combining inhibitors under "weak" or "moderate" in extremely small doses the day before trying to cycle Noribogaine.
ibogaine without noribogaine:
if you wanted to cycle ibogaine alone without noribogaine effects (or very little noribogaine) you would do the same thing but make sure not to take valerian and instead ON the day of the cycling you would take strong CYP2D6 inhibitors at the same time as the ALDH inhibitors, in both set-ups you take the piperidine or dimethylamine 45 minutes before the ALDH inhibitors.
"Many seek the Noribogaine effects as this is filled with positive bliss. If you can hone this one out...BOOM BUHM! "
do you mean what needs to be done to get only Noribogaine? simple, dose valerian an hour to an hour and a half before iboga, if you cannot get your hands on valerian, then the day beforehand dose a combination of short lasting weak-moderate strength inhibitors from the list, then the next day when you take the iboga, you take it EXACTLY 15 minutes after the time you took the inhibitors the day prior.
your bodies enzyme runs on a tight schedule and if you inhibit or induce something they get written down in the schedule and your body expects to be repeating that act at the same time everyday this becomes more and more strong the more days on the EXACT same timing you take an inhibitor or inducer.
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From earlier posts by Peaceful Warrior:
now both ibogaine (12-Methoxyibogamine) and Noribogaine (12-Hydroxyibogamine) both seem to be able to be cycle because they are amines
i am currently looking up the receptors ibogaine alone hits, wile wiki lists the following for Noribogaine:
"Noribogaine is most potent as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor and acts as a moderate κ- and weak µ-opioid receptor full agonist"
the serotonin reuptake inhibitor part means temporarily during its effects the serotonin system is somewhat suppressed but upon the effect wearing off their is a permanent increase in the reuptake of serotonin, that is only reversed with continued over-activation of that system most usually by drugs of abuse.
one of the iboga effects are hallucinations from 5HT2A agonism, this is the primary receptor most psychedelics effect, downstream (downstream means activating this causes the activation of) this agonizes dopamine 2 receptor (D2), some compounds don't start with 5HT2A at all and instead directly effect D2 like salvia and cannabis, the primary effects of cannabis are D2 agonism, hard drugs like meth and cocaine the dream states these can cause are also caused by D2 agonism. lsd has a D2 agonism component.
now iboga is good in chronic micro doses (multiple reasons this is just one) because its kappa agonism increases the amount of D2 receptors in the brain, so that its 5HT2A agonism has more D2 receptors to flow into downstream.
the kappa opiod agonist part means you will get dynorphin, and your D2 receptors will be upregualted meaning increase the amount of receptors on the cell (addiction downregulates, anti-addictives upregulate)
dynorphin is the primary feeling of dread or loathing or dysphoria produced by drug withdrawal, intense exercise also produces dynorphin release. dynorphin itself agonizes kappa receptors. agonizing kappa receptors also releases dynorphin.
regardless of the means of activation agonizing kappa receptor reverses addiction in many key areas, it does not fix it, it pushes the bar in the right direction, in the same way abstaining from drugs for long periods would, so its kind of like speeding up time, agonizing this receptor as far as drug withdrawal is concerned because you can concentrate strong withdrawal of the drug into a short period of time and be done with it instead of dragging the dread out for weeks and months.
its effects on µ-opioid receptor are weaker than for kappa this is good, this receptor will give it a little bit higher of a serotonin phase in the beginning, it also makes this compound very useful for pain treatment and addiction treatment, because the NMDA antagonism makes its µ-opioid agonism non-tolerance creating, and the kappa agonism reverses the tolerance the user already had before ingestion.
the more CYP2D6 enzyme present in the stomach the less ibogaine you will get and the more Noribogaine you will get below is a list of inhibitors for that enzyme witch will cause ibogaine to be active alone taking much longer for the enzyme to recover and turn ibogaine into Noribogaine.
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Peaceful Warrior:
--- Stay away from these if you are seeking Noribogaine ---
POTENT CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Cannabidiol (from Cannabis)
Echinacea purpurea
Goldenseal
Pomegranate juice (Punica granatum): 1 cup
Pummelo
Saint John’s Wort (high dose)
Starfruit juice
White grapefruit juice: 2 cups
MODERATE CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Black pepper: 5 grams (ingest the solids, it's an ineffective inhibitor as tea)
Calamus EO: 3 drops
Kava
Pi. cubeba
Quercetin
Zingiber aromaticum
WEAK CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Alpha-asarone (found in Calamus EO)
Black cohosh
Capsaicin (found in cayenne pepper, habanero peppers, etc.)
Cayenne pepper
Common sage
Cryptotanshinone
Curcuma heyneana
Curcumin
German chamomile EO
Ginkgo biloba
Habanero pepper
Milk Thistle
Safrole
Tanshinone I
Turmeric
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--- These will potentiate/induce the Noribogaine ---
also if you take these you will get more Noribogaine effects and less ibogaine effects:
CYP2D6 INDUCERS
Valerian root
Valerian root EO: 2-5 drops
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Reading through this again, I realize I'm slightly confused. Are you saying the CYP2D6 inhibitors (on the list) will facilitate Noribogaine or Ibogaine? Somehow I'm scratching my head on this...
the more CYP2D6 enzyme present in the stomach the less ibogaine you will get and the more Noribogaine you will get below is a list of inhibitors for that enzyme witch will cause ibogaine to be active alone taking much longer for the enzyme to recover and turn ibogaine into Noribogaine.
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it will facilitate more ibogaine.
if you wanted to cycle ibogaine alone without noribogaine effects (or very little noribogaine) you would do the same thing but make sure not to take valerian and instead ON the day of the cycling you would take strong CYP2D6 inhibitors at the same time as the ALDH inhibitors, in both set-ups you take the piperidine or dimethylamine 45 minutes before the ALDH inhibitors.
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Reading through this again, I realize I'm slightly confused. Are you saying the CYP2D6 inhibitors (on the list) will facilitate Noribogaine or Ibogaine? Somehow I'm scratching my head on this...
the more CYP2D6 enzyme present in the stomach the less ibogaine you will get and the more Noribogaine you will get below is a list of inhibitors for that enzyme witch will cause ibogaine to be active alone taking much longer for the enzyme to recover and turn ibogaine into Noribogaine.
these induce more CYP2D6 this means more of the enzyme becomes present, inhibitors suppress the enzyme, the other longer list are inhibitors.
inhibitors for CYP2D6 will prevent Noribogaine from forming until the inhibitors wear off.
the inducers listed below will cause Noribogaine to be more likely to be made.
"CYP2D6 INDUCERS
Valerian root
Valerian root EO: 2-5 drops"
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Ok thanks! When I'm @a regular computer I'll adjust that long list of inhibitors to say, "stay away from these if you want the Noribogaine effect", sound good? Trying to be rigorous and precise with this as I consider it a major work.
Question:
I have a super potent Andean Valarian extract I made, after I flood when the Noribogaine kicks into high gear, in theory would taking that extract say 2-3 times a day amp up the Noribogaine? Or do I still need to have the l-lysine before taking the Valarian?
Thanks!
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"I have a super potent Andean Valarian extract I made, after I flood when the Noribogaine kicks into high gear, in theory would taking that extract say 2-3 times a day amp up the Noribogaine? Or do I still need to have the l-lysine before taking the Valarian? "
if you take valerian before and possibly during you should cause more noribogaine to be formed, even if you don't take any L-lysine.
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The flood went gracefully like I got struck with pure white lightning and then put back together in one seamless orchestration. So the Noribogaine is beginning to perculate, it feels as an unbeatable optimism and pure happiness.
Another question:
I was planning on taking either Iboga Root Bark or Iboga Total Alkaloid Extract to conduct the experiments. This of course has many alkaloids other than Ibogaine. Just was wondering if for the inducers if you think they would only work for Ibogaine HCL or for the total alkaloids? I know this is likely a stupid question but thought it best to sway on covering all possibilities.
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Could someone explain exactly what cycling is in simple terms (for those of us who don't have a PhD in Biochemistry...!).
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Could someone explain exactly what cycling is in simple terms (for those of us who don't have a PhD in Biochemistry...!).
A. insert compound that is an aldehyde or alcohol or one that can be metabolized into one.
B. make sure Aldehyde dehydrogenase is inhibited.
C. supply piperidine or dimethylamine for the aldehyde to condense with and make a new highly active compound from.
piperidine metabolites have usually very long durations (multiple days) and are often more potent.
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A. insert compound that is an aldehyde or alcohol or one that can be metabolized into one.
B. make sure Aldehyde dehydrogenase is inhibited.
C. supply piperidine or dimethylamine for the aldehyde to condense with and make a new highly active compound from.
piperidine metabolites have usually very long durations (multiple days) and are often more potent.
So if A is Noribogaine and you do steps B and C then Noribogaine is converted into a much more potent form and the conversion process continues as long as C sticks around?
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after you get it working and cycling YES if you just keep B and C supplied it continues working for weeks at a time many other compounds do this witch is amazing because normally only things like iboga last for weeks in you.
my idea is not fulley fleshed out yet.
but its roughly like this:
use manipulation of enzymes to cause Noribogaine to metabolize into an alcohol or aldehyde form. (if not react it with an aldehyde in hopes of making the new compound preferential for ALDH)
witch ever of the two ends up working is then goes to A
actually i put the order completely wrong it goes C, wait 45 minutes then B wait 15 minutes, then A LOL
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I just found out that a company is producing Noribogaine...
https://biochem.thc-pharm.de/product_info.php?products_id=210
So would the cycling be the same protocol as the given one? Not that I can afford this substance. Anyone know if it would actually be legal in Turtle Island )US(?
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it COULD work possibly but i have no way of 100% guarantee that noribogaine metabolizes into an aldehyde at some point.
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the thing is KP even if none of kambo or its metabolites are cycled the things kambo causes your body to release i am almost certain can be cycled, this i have a very strong sensation is why cycling is so powerful because even the things that cannot be cycled can still benefit from cycling because it will cycle the things the drug causes your body to release.
cycling goes hand in hand with healing, especially the difficult healing like kambo, iboga, aya and others because these things will take your bodies drug system that is ravaged by doing drugs and it will not only set it back to healthy it will push it into above 100% THIS is why most people aren't very receptive to some of my ideas because they are not aware they are not at 100% and they are genuinely convinced you cannot go beyond 100% health.
when you do the difficult healing it causes benefits that come afterwords that last many weeks often, THIS all these benefits can be cycled, because these stronger healers improve the efficiency of your system at creating and using its internal drugs and since these natural compounds will be raising you will be able to notice them more ware before you probably never noticed them, then combine that with cycling and these internal compounds start to out-compete the external compounds.
to sum up: there are only a handful of neurotransmitters the body uses to carry out is various functions, almost every compound causes its effects by altering these neurotransmitters in some way, the vast majority of the neurotransmitters can be cycled.
we should test the cycle-ability of the neurotransmitters then from their we will know tons of compounds that would benefit from cycling
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cycling goes hand in hand with healing, especially the difficult healing like kambo, iboga, aya and others because these things will take your bodies drug system that is ravaged by doing drugs and it will not only set it back to healthy it will push it into above 100% THIS is why most people aren't very receptive to some of my ideas because they are not aware they are not at 100% and they are genuinely convinced you cannot go beyond 100% health.
And vice versa brother. Which explains why I am completely in love with your teachings, ideals and spirit. I already had these innate teachings written in my ancient and eternal spirit. So regardless if this can be the launching pad for your ideas which shall resonate with the cosmos itself, then let it be. Even if it's just us that are convinced, that is quite enough. I encourage our participants to delve into these realms and to truly make Kambo come out as the most cutting edge modality on the planet. Let us remember the co incidence...in Bwiti: Kambo means "Guradian of Ceremonies". Ultimate healing.
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it COULD work possibly but i have no way of 100% guarantee that noribogaine metabolizes into an aldehyde at some point.
your statement seems at odds with what you posted previously - can you clarify??
i am saying combining for iboga to get Noribogaine to cycle:
piperidine (black pepper tea or L-lysine)
ALDH inhibitors (grocery store natural almond and star anise extracts) (or just tea made from whole star anises)
and then an CYP2D6 INDUCER like valerian, it could take anywhere from 30 minutes to over an hour after taking valerian for its induction to kick in.
so the timing would be for noribogaine:
pepper tea without solids (or l-lysine) and valerian at the same time
45 minutes later
20-40 drops each of natural star anise extract and almond extract from grocery store, sewing needle pokes small enough holes for drops in the foil seal, if put in gel caps with olive oil and taken followed right after by half peanut butter sandwich it is infinitely more enjoyable. or if your lazy you could eat 20 drops of each and apply 10+ drops to the skin above the liver and or along the meridians connected with the stomach and intestines and such, taking a caffeine tablet with these extracts at the same time will boost the ALDH inhibition very strongly.
15 minutes later
take ibogaine (possibly best if taken in gel caps, mixed with olive oil might help as well, and with very small bite of peanut butter sandwich)
if one cannot get valerian, they could take any of the short lasting INHIBITORS listed, the day before taking piperidine and ALDH inhibitors, and the next day after taking the short lasting inhibitors they will have long worn off with a high probability of the body slightly inducing the enzyme upon recovery from the inhibitor, you could do this by combining inhibitors under "weak" or "moderate" in extremely small doses the day before trying to cycle Noribogaine.
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I think he's saying that Noribogaine hcl seems uncertain. The original was for cycling Ibogaine into Noribogaine. If that makes sense. Hard to wrap my brain around this but it is in itself helping me think in a more left brain sense.
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I think I understand the difference between the two. It sounds like the noribogaine that gets cycled in his earlier post, being a byproduct of Iboga, is not the same as manufactured noribogaine which is in hcl form. So, in the same way that TA and Ibogaine hcl aren't the same compound, the naturally formed noribogaine behaves differently from manufactured noribogaine hcl.
Phew, I should stick to cycling on a bike....
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Phew, I should stick to cycling on a bike....
I'm feeling intimidated too, but who else would venture into these realms? With Iboga or Kambo? No one unless we do. We can't just put all of it on Peaceful Warrior to accomplish these experiences, nor should we depend on him like that.
All I know is when I first did Kambo on myself, I had much less instruction then what Peaceful Warrior has provided, and I was able to do it somehow/someway with sheer intuitive determination. So where there's a will there's a way and I am at least suggesting that those frontiersman that experiment in these ways very well may reap the highest rewards of healing promises from the spirit of these medicines.
Maybe it will help one a layman (me) can do these simple tasks of cycling which for some reason (lack of exposure to these methods I presume) seem so hard to wrap the mind around.
2013 will be a big year!
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I'm feeling intimidated too
Well if you're feeling intimidated that's somewhat reassuring as you have way more experience under your belt than myself.
I am at least suggesting that those frontiersman that experiment in these ways very well may reap the highest rewards of healing promises from the spirit of these medicines.
I haven't had the sort of feedback from these medicines that you and others have but I am sure you're right on the mark with this statement. In respect to cycling, if we can get this to work and thereby get more out of these medicines by consuming less with the intention of preserving them from extinction, that very intention must surely have considerable power behind it and as these medicines can read us like a book, they can't help but respond to that intention.
2013 will be a big year!
He he - I think it will. It's the first time in a long time that I am excited about the start of a new year and it looks like I may be visiting OH for the first time ;)